Thursday, January 8, 2009

2005 Honda CRV AWD makes grinding noise when turning sharply

2005 Honda CRV with only 30K miles, starts making grinding noise when turning sharply at low speed. Just past 36 month warranty period.

Turns out the rear differential oil was inferior and has to be replaced by something called dual pump II oil.

If you catch it early enough, simple oil changes will make the noise go away. (although when the dealer does it, they flush it 3 times). A differential oil change is around $99. The dual pump II oil runs around $7/L and you need 1.1 liter.

If you catch it within your warranty period (36 mo, 60K miles) Honda might service it free.
Oh yeah, they'll only do it IF there is noise.

This affects many of the CRV years, but only if you have AWD. 2WD not affected. It's all over the internet, since 2001 at least.

Honda put out a Service Bulletin #07-024 with instructions to replace the rear differential fluid and burnish the rear differential clutches. This type of service flushes the differential 3 times and costs around $399. If you buy just the parts, it might be around $70 incl. some kind of differential flushing fluid. http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A07-024.PDF

Ignore the fact that the owner's manual says to change differential fluid at 60K miles or 4 yrs. The original fluid is defective: all bets are off.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12b00f/79
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12b00f
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12b00f/118

The true DPF longevity is about 15,000 mile, and Honda technitians know it. The TSB even suggests more frequent fluid replacements. The rear end on the Cr-V has been around since 1985 in its basic form, and always required 15,000 mile service intervals.

I leased Honda thinking it had good quality. I was SHOCKED to find that they have this Rear Differential problems in 2005, 2006 and EVEN MORE SO in 2007. You go to any Honda dealer service rep and they know about the problem but you have to ask for service and the they quietly do the work.

The design of the rear differential calls for 15,000 mile fluid changes. However, as you may know, most companies these days it is not the guys who know (engineeres and scientists) but it is the guys who count (accountants) and the puffers (marketing) that run the show. Hence the manual stating the longer intervals. Honda is trying to prolong the life of the fluid by replacing it with a Synthetic Dual Pump II, which may give it 30,000 miles, but I still doubt that 60,000 mile intervals are possible. I replace the fluid in my CR-V on an annual basis, along with semi-annual caliper slider pins lubrication, and other maintenance items...

http://www.hondasuv.com/members/showthread.php?t=23290&page=2&highlight=crv+rear+differential
This page says maybe only Japanese made CRVs have the problem, not US made CRVs.

31 comments:

  1. w00ters11-21-2002, 01:39 AM
    i am a honda tech at a honda/acura dealer... it is the rear diff fluid it needs to be changed every 15k or so.. i do it almost daily here.. jsut go to honda get a qt of dual pump fluid and a gasket. it takes one qt that will take care of it. if its been squeaking for a bit now, you might need to do it twice . :)

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  2. http://www.google.com/search?q=crv+differential+noise++dealer+goodwill&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

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  3. 2005 Owners Manual states 60k/4 yr interval,
    while the Service History book states 90k.

    In warranty: The normal warranty applies.
    Operation Number: 2191N7
    Flat Rate Time: 1.1 hours
    Failed Part: P/N 41011-PNZ-307
    H/C 7363658
    Defect Code: 08103
    Symptom Code: 04216
    Skill Level: Repair Technician

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  4. This is covered by the Honda warranty if your vehicle is in warranty. However, Honda may also be providing goodwill service on this. Talk to the service advisor and let them know that you’re aware that Honda is providing a goodwill adjustment on this service.

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  5. I would see if your local Honda dealer will warranty or goodwill that service for you . Also you must use the oe fluid for the differential if you decide to service it yourself it is called Duel pump 2 fluid let me know if you have any questions

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  6. Do not use anything but Honda Dual Pump System Fluid II (P/N 08200-9007, H/C 8632044). It is a specially formulated hydraulic fluid for the RT4WD System. No substitutes are available.

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  7. bbrnhart10-16-2008, 09:51 AM
    I had the moaning problems at 17,000. They changed the fluid and it went away. They said that Honda had come up with a better fluid and this would fix the problem. At about 51,000 it started doing the same thing. They told me that I should have been changing the oil at 30k intervals and now the cluches needed to be burnished. Cost about $200.00. I bitched and they said they would take care of it for free This Time. Who do these guys think they are? I've owned 6 Hondas and never had a problem with them. When I do have a problem they dis-own the problem. The manual states 90 to 120,000 mile changes not 30,000. Honda has a problem and they need fix it, not brush it off. If I hadn't bitched about the price I would have been charged for it.

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  8. Changing The Rear Differential Fluid On The 2007 CR-V, Photo Essay

    http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3324

    To meet the minimum requirement of the service schedule, you should drain and refill the rear differential one time. TSB 07-024 does a 2X drain and refill with burnishing after the first and second refill—but this TSB is for rear differentials that have made noise. For a rear differential that has not made noise, a single drain and refill is all that is necessary.

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  9. Replying to: phelps2 (Nov 20, 2007 8:31 am)


    Don't pay for the work if you are within the warranty period!
    I had the same problem with my 2006 CR-V, the shudder in tight turns. They knew exactly what was wrong.

    Honda put out a Service Bulletin #07-024 with instructions to replace the rear differential fluid and burnish the rear differential clutches.

    I had this done today during my 30K mile scheduled service. They used Honda Dual Pump Fluid II.

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  10. Replying to: jcl741 (Jun 27, 2008 11:05 am)


    I just had my diff fluid replaced on my 2007 Honda CRV today due to grinding when turning and excessive road noise. It only has 22,000 miles on it. I also would like to know of any class action suits on this matter. This car has been a dream car up until now. After reading all these comments, I'm worried!

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  11. Replying to: amiller1 (Nov 12, 2008 4:51 pm)


    While some posters have reported problems in getting a dealer to change the fluid free of charge, most have not. This is Honda's error and there is a TSB on the issue (#07-024) that instructs the dealer to change the fluid and burnish the rear differential clutches under its normal warranty. That is, you are covered.

    The TSB goes on, "Out of Warranty: Any repair performed after warranty may be eligible for goodwill consideration by the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone Office. You must request consideration, and get a decision before starting work."

    Whoever told you this issue was not covered under warranty was in error. It's unfortunate, but common to all dealers, that some employees are poorly informed or simply instructed to try to charge for something they shouldn't be charging for.

    Bottom line, an informed consumer should not have to pay for having the rear differential fluid changed until it's normally scheduled in the owner's manual.

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  12. [PDF] ATB 35140-3800l.fmFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
    authorized Honda automobile dealer. October 3, 2007. 07-024. Applies To:. 2002– 07 CR-V – ALL with 4WD. Moan or Groan From the Rear Differential ...
    honda.justanswer.com/uploads/acuramstr/2008-05-14_144632_dual_pump.pdf

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  13. http://www.mycarstats.com/Auto_TSBs/HONDA_CR-V_TSBs.asp

    http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_TSBs/TOYOTA_RAV4_TSBs.asp

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  14. CONSUMER COMPLAINT: ODI Case Number: 10117972

    Component: POWER TRAIN:DRIVELINE:CONSTANT VELOCITY JOINT

    Details: THIS NEW 05' HONDA CR-V EX HAS HAD NUMEROUS PROBLEMS WITH NO RESOLVE FROM THE DEALER. IT HAS A CONTINUED PROBLEM OF PULLING TO THE RIGHT AS WELL AS VIBRATION AT HIGHER SPEEDS. ALSO, THE PASSENGER SIDE CV BOOT HAS BEEN REPAIRED TWICE AS WELL AS THE TRANSAXLE. THE VEHICLE CAME NEW WITH THESE PROBLEMS. THE DEALER HAS TRIED DILIGENTLY TO FIX THE PTTR PROBLEM WITH NEW TIRES, AXLE, ROTATION, ALIGNMENT, WHEELS FROM OTHER 05' CR-V'S. BUT, THEY HAVE SAID THE VIBRATION IS WITHIN MANUFACTURE'S SPECS!!!! I HAVE SPENT MORE TIME WITH MY CAR AT THE DEALER SINCE I BOUGHT THIS CAR IN DECECMBER OF 2004 AND IT IS NOW APRIL 2005! THE VIBRATION COMES ABOUT THROUGHOUT THE CAB, ESPECIALLY THROUGH THE STEERING WHEEL AT AROUND 50-70 MPH. I'M VERY UPSET THAT I PAY GOOD MONEY FOR A CAR THAT BRINGS ME GRIEF EACH AND EVERY TIME I DRIVE THE CAR ON THE HI-WAY. AROUND TOWN IT'S FINE. THIS CAR IS NOT RIGHT, AND HAS NEVER BEEN RIGHT FROM THE FACTORY. THIS IB THE WORST HONDA PURCHASE I HAVE HAD AFTER OWNING 5 OTHER HONDA'S!*AK

    Occurrences: 5

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  15. OWN A 2005 CR-V EX AWD. I TO HAVE EXPERIENCED THE CR-V REAR DIFFERENTIAL CONTAMINATION PROBLEM. HOWLING NOISE WHILE TURNING BECAME EVIDENT FROM THE BACK END DURING THE WINTER OF 07-08 AND APPROXIMATELY 25000 MILES. DEALER DETERMINED THE DIFFERENTIAL FLUID WAS CONTAMINATED AND FLUSHED/REPLACED THE FLUID AND PERFORMED A CLUTCH BURNISHING PROCEDURE...FORTUNATELY UNDER A GOODWILL WARRANTY PER A TSB. NO PROBLEMS SINCE BUT BASED ON OTHER COMPLAINTS I FEAR IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME. REAR DIFFERENTIAL CONTAMINATION APPEARS TO BE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS CR-V VERSION (02-08) WHICH HONDA REALLY NEEDS TO ADDRESS. *TR

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  16. Rear Differential Interval

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here is an interesting quote from a Honda Media Newsroom 2007 Powertrain technical release. It is discussing how the dual pump system works. Note the statement bolded. This release is dated 9-1-2006, which would indicate that as of Sept 2006 some people in Honda still believed that the dual pump oil was good for 60,000 miles. The actual MMI interval for changing the rear differential oil is around 15,000 miles.


    "Overall system operation is completely automatic; no electronics or driver action is involved. The greater the degree of front-wheel slippage, the greater the amount of torque fed to the rear wheels. Real Time™ 4WD is also low maintenance. The Maintenance Minder system will indicate that the dual pump fluid should be changed at about 60,000 miles."

    http://www.hondanews.com/categories/844/releases/3653

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  17. Rear Differential Fluid

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You need to get the rear differential fluid changed real soon. It should have been done per the MMI on the second scheduled oil change generally around 15 to 20K.

    The rear differential fluid is fairly easy to change and can be done either by your self or your local garage but you must use Honda Dual Pump Fluid II. Do not allow the local garage to use any thing but the Honda fluid!

    I have done a pictorial do it yourself guide for changing the fluid here:

    http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/...ead.php?t=3324

    It is actually fairly easy to do. Just pay attention to the cautions in the guide.

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  18. Thanks so much for this blog. It helped me identify the problem on my wife's 2007 CRV. The dealer agreed that the rear differential fluid was the problem, and voila, the problem got fixed. Our CRV is from south of the border (Mexico), but manufactured in Japan. It's disappointing that Honda has not notified the owners of AWD CRVs about this problem---it would have saved us some anxiety, research, and premature replacement of tires. It's unfortunate that Honda would rather upset and annoy owners by withholding critical information, such as notifying owners of updates and corrections to the maintenance schedule, than come clean with problems. This doesn't help build brand loyalty. But, I am grateful for your blog---it was a big help

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  19. Rear differential fluid also needs periodic changes; use only original Honda fluid.
    Worn out differential fluid may cause groaning or humming noise from the rear end while turning.

    http://www.samarins.com/reviews/cr-v.html

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  20. # Use of incorrect oil in the rear differential on AWD models will cause a "chattering" sound and vibration on turns. Use only Honda-approved differential oil.
    # A groaning noise from the rear differential heard while going through turns can be caused by differential fluid break down.

    http://repairpal.com/cars/honda/cr-v

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  21. Honda states reason for problem was contaminated differential fluid. After draining fluid myself I discovered Honda had not used correct viscosity weight fluid at the factory causing early failure. Spoke to Honda parts department for special differential fluid. Parts manager indicated this fluid had been through three revisions due to this issue known back in 2006.

    Oh well it took me 20 minutes to change fluid and everything works ok now. Honda recommends changing their fluid every 10-15K miles because of this issue.

    http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2006/drivetrain/noise_in_rear_differential.shtml

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  22. At 20000 miles the rear differential started making a grinding noise so I took it to the dealer. I was told the fluid had broken down and they would need to flush it and replace it with an updated fluid. They did, and I asked them if the problem would reoccur and was told, "no, it is a new fluid and it will not breakdown prematurely.

    Well, the vehicle now has 43000 miles and it started to make the same noise again. It is still under warranty but Honda refused to do anything under warranty because they say it is a maintenance issue. I asked how it was a maintenance issue when the manual states it should be replaced at 90000 miles and yet it's in need of being replaced for the second time at only 43000 miles. The service manager basically told me to either pay them $149.95 to replace it or do it myself.

    I should not have to pay $149.95 for a fluid change every 20000 miles or so, let alone have to pay for a new rear differential should it happen to fail after the warranty expires which it probably will. I called Honda headquarters and they are just as ignorant about the situation. It seems that Honda is rapidly headed toward becoming a substandard brand in my opinion, and judging by the enormous number of complaints I came across doing a simple search, I assume many if not most would agree.

    http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2006/drivetrain/noise_in_rear_differential.shtml

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  23. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12b00f

    my experience by ecranos Oct 20, 2009 (1:33 pm) Save | Reply
    We own a 2006 CRV with 63,000 miles on it. We will have owned it for four years in November. We are the original owners and I have serious doubts of ever purchasing a Honda automobile ever again. As many, I have read, are experiencing, I began to notice a sort of bumping and slight tremor while turning a sharper left or right. I took the car to our local mechanic.
    He informed me that it was a rear differential issue to which I asked what is a rear differential. He walked me through it all and told me to get into Honda because it was also leaking, needed to be addressed soon and that this may be under warranty. He further stated that this did not just happen overnight either, that the seal deterioration was going on for some time.
    I made the appointment for the following morning. Our local dealership looked at it and told me yes, it was the rear differential and it was leaking. (Which they stated they were surprised with because "they never see this happen"). They further stated that to replace the two axle seals and change out the differential fluid would cost $578. I asked them about warranty coverage and after some poking and prodding they said they would call corporate but that I was out of warranty and the fluid is a maintenance issue. I told them I had never even heard of rear differential prior to the day before and always refer to my Honda Service History booklet when scheduling mileage or year maintenance, and if I was supposed to get the fluid changed out I certainly would have.
    The local dealer tried their best to pin this all on the fact that I do not use them for my regular maintenance which is complete garbage. Last I checked this is America and I can take my car where ever I get good service. For me, that is my local Goodyear around the corner from our house. As it turns out they didn't have the parts anyway and I would have to come back. Meanwhile I was to expect a call when they heard back from Honda Corporate.
    They did call later that day and informed me that out of the kindness of their heart, Corporate was only going to charge me for half the price of the seals which would total $71. They also stated that because the fluid is a maintenance issue I would be charged the full $158 for that. I told them to get the parts and scheduled an appointment for today. I also told them that we had done some research and found Honda Corp. is aware of the issue (bulletins) and that many owners are having the same problem. Further - I told her my Honda Service History booklet does not recommend replacing the rear differential fluid until 90,000 miles or five years. Boy did she try and argue that - with no leg to stand on. Her favorite excuse was that "in your manual it states that in extreme driving conditions (Florida) the rear differential fluid should be checked every 20,000 miles". Well guess what - no where in my manual does it read that. It was something she found and printed from online.
    So long story short we got taken. Taken by our local dealership, taken by Honda Corporate. I'm a sole-proprietor and I lost three days worth of work just to get taken. Total bill $253.45. Total hassle - more than Honda has. Won't be buying a Honda again.

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  24. We have a 05 CR-V with 26k and had the noise problem. Went to dealer in 09 with the service bulletin that says we may ask for a GOOD-WILL oil change. Sorry out of warranty. Said they would split the cost, the split was the same as the price we were quoted on the phone before we went to the shop. The have no GOOD WILL with me.

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  25. Own a 2006 CRV. Read all the above, had the same shit at 30k and now again at 58k miles. I am so sick of this, This is my last Honda I'll buy!

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  26. Looked at a 2001 CRV yesterday and gave it a test drive. Heard the rear end low hum/grind noise when turning. Also seemed to hear a sort of thump noise (boot issue) when turning really sharp around a corner. Is that thump noise normal. The salesman said it was the 4WD. The dealer called me last night and said they changed the rear differential oil and they added $200 onto the cost of the CRV. 170,000 $5595. My question is since its an older CRV not under warranty anymore should they change the rear end differential oil for Free due to this existing problem, or goodwill service based on TSB-07-024 ? Also with that many miles I'm wondering how long this noise has been going on and if the REDO has ever been changed.

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  27. I own a 2005 honda crv 4wd. It has been at the dealers for over a week now and the bill is at $800. They have been working on the vibration I get at around 40mph. Balance the tires, then needed high-tech balance, then the rear differential fluid, then new brakes, then new tires. Now they say I need new axles. Honda manufacturer says they will go half on them leaving me with a bill of $2500. I will just drive it with the vibration and not drive 42 mph. Driving a little faster or slower is worth saving the money because it might not fix the problem. This is my second honda and my last.

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  28. We bought our 2002 Honda CRV in 2005 and since 2009 have spent approx $6,000 on it. At this time the differential mounts and damper mount need replacing. The mechanic said that it should resolve the grinding noise when turning right or left which as been an ongoing problem. I worry that I will still have to bring it to the dealer to get the differential fluid changed. The problems seem non-ending. SRS light on with code indicating that seatbelt buckle needs replacing. DRL module just replaced. The door locks haven't worked in a few years nor has the fuel gauge and I will not be repairing those items. I hate this vehicle and will never own another Honda. Overrated, cheaply made pieces of crap.

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  29. I have the same problem with my 2005 CRV. It makes a loud roaring noise when whenever I put snow chain on the wheel. It doesn't want to go over 10 MPH. It happened after a few months after I bought it and drove it to the Mountain.
    Took to the dealer but I couldn't duplicate the problem. Last week I went to Palm Springs Aerial Tram and it make a scary loud crackling noise that sounds like coming from some where in the drive train. I believe this is related to the problem when I went to the mountain few months after I bought the car. I took to the dealer and again couldn't duplicate the problem. I paid $220 to have diagnostic. At the end the deler said it has nothing to do with the Drivetrain. I wonder how many people need to have the same problem before a Class Action Suite can be filled agains Honda to make them recall or fix all these noise problem. I hope there is any Lawyer read these forum and willing to represent us agains Honda.

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  30. My 2009 CRV was recently serviced by Honda at 30,000 miles. They told me the mechanic had heard a noise from the differential and determined the fluid needed to be replaced. He said it was low (but not leaking). I thought this peculiar. Anyway they charged me about $100 for the service. Is the fluid problem still there in 2009 models? and should this have been a warrantee item? I'm not sure the noise is gone.

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  31. I have just had shock of my life... I went to purchase another car.. part exchanging my Honda
    cr-v reg is 2004... great service history and on purchase we asked about the noise we were told its the 4 wheel drive don't worry.. well the garage took my car for a test drive before making me a part exchange offer... they told me the front diffs and maybe one on the back were bad and that they could not make me a good deal...it was going to cost me £800 for parts and 2 days labour at £40 per hour..well im gutted and and would like to thank Honda for fobbing us off.

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